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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Time Will Tell.. Reply with quote

And soon enough..
Time will tell..
'bout the purpose
In the 'Wishing-Well'.

You know, back in the nineteen-twenties when Mister Gurdjieff owned the Chateau at Fontainbleu, he would explain to the family gathered around him about the importance of 'wishing well'.

I've no doubt this was often discussed, especially on those special occasions in the evenings reserved for "Toasting The Idiots" Razz

Because, of course there are twenty completely different types of idiot in the world - discounting those truly rare types who through their own Conscious Labours and Intentional Sufferings have become truly a unique Idiot. Wink

Such as G himself who was happy to declare that he was "Idiot type vingty-une the 'unique idiot'.

I am Idiot type 22 the unique singing Idiot! Laughing

And so..

Tyme 4 a Song... Let's have a listen to "Black Sabbath"


Throw me a penny and I'll make you a dream
You'll find that lifes not always what it seems, no no
Then think of a rainbow and I'll make it come real
Roll me, I'm a never ending wheel
I'll give you a star
So you know just where you are
Don't you know that I might be
Your wishing well
Your wishing well

Look in the water, tell me what do you see
Reflections of the love you give to me
Love isn't money, it's not something you buy
So let me fill myself with tears you cry, why?

Time is a never ending journey
Love is a never ending smile
Give me a sign to build a dream on
Dream on...

Yeah, throw me a penny and I'll make you a dream
You'll find that life's not always what it seems, no no
Love isn't money, it's not something you buy
So let me fill myself with tears you cry

I'll give you a star
So you know just where you are
Someday, some way, you'll feel the things I say
Dream for a while
Of the things that make you smile
cause you know
Don't you know
Oh, you know
That I'm your wishing well
Your wishing well
Your wishing well
I wish you well
I'm your wishing well

Now isn't that "nice" ?? Very Happy

This sort of thing is "The Herald of Coming Good".

And not "Harold of Cummingood" Ejay!

Anyone like to discuss the Gabriel Papers?

Love and Peace,


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: A Thousand And One Nights Reply with quote

“Sometimes, as in the Thousand and One Nights, the story takes place on several levels at once… No matter what passage we recall, what is said has a correspondence elsewhere. There is an untold tale, parallel to the first, which is found higher up, at the high-water mark of ideas that can be perceived only with time. These are the ideas that Gurdjieff, by means of literature and other devices, aimed to make accessible to everyone.” (Manuel Rainoird)

And of course, if we are to get to the real Gurdjieff we must read his own real work and not that of E.J Gold or any other pretender to the Gurdjieff Legacy.

And that means reading the first series "ALL AND EVERYTHING"

Though unfortunately, not the current edition which has been corrupted beyond all recognition by those ever the same hasnamussian forces.

You be sure and hang on to that copy you've never read Bd!

Love and Peace,

The Black Lion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Everyone.. Reply with quote


That's right Manuel, the specific benefit he 'wished' (with ALL his being) for all the readers of his First Series who faithfully followed his friendly advice on how to read it, he did indeed Wish to be accessible to everyone - and certainly NOT the 'priests and theologians' of some unknown hasnamussian cult!

I have an anger in me that's colder than liquid nitrogen.

It 'started out' in sorrow, but for some time now I have seen the Master's coming Retribution, and my sorrow turned to a sort of cold-certainty of Just Is.. (justice).

Nonetheless I join my fellow dedicated and true students and Kesdjan children of Uncle George, in the following protest.. And it seems certain to me now that the de Salzmanns were got at.. After all Madame de Salzmann seems to have been well trusted by Gurdjieff, and he wasn't the sort of man to make a mistake about a person. Of course, degeneration of her descendants could account for it too, but either way it cannot be allowed.


A Protest Made In Sorrow on the Revision of Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson

The following is a response to the recent publication of a revised version of All and Everything, First Series, or Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, by G.I.Gurdjieff. This is made by a number of students of Gurdjieff's teaching, and is addressed to those believed to be responsible for the revised publication, but who remain unidentified. While this response presents many questions about the revision that arise in the minds of serious students of Gurdjieff's teaching, it is in actuality a protest, reflecting the dissent and dismay of those presented in the authentic text of his remarkable book. As such, this is written more in sorrow than in anger. Appended hereto are the signatures of a few of the students who support this response, and join in expressing their objection to the adulteration of Gurdjieff's work.

For more than 20 years now, we have applied a considerable amount of time, attention, and energy to the reading and study of "Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson (Beelzebub's Tales) and listening to it being read aloud. Time and time again, we have drawn on Gurdjieff's writings for answers to questions regarding the Work, our own Work, and how to live a life in the Work. This Book, Beelzebub's Tales, especially has becomes for us a hearth of understanding and inspiration, and no matter how many times we have read it, always presents us with new insights.

I hope very much that you will be kind enough to answer this letter or cause it to be answered.

(List of fellow Gurdjieffians removed in the interests of their privacy)

Dear Dr. de Salzmann:

I am sending this letter to you as I understand you are the titular head of the teachings of Gurdjieff in Europe and America - possibly for the whole planet. If this is a misunderstanding on my part, please forgive me. Copies of this letter will be sent to senior persons I know by name in various centers such as London, New York and San Francisco.

This letter is a question and conveys a protest about the appearance in bookstores of a revised version of Gurdjieff's Book, the legacy of his teaching, All and Everything, or, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson. I am led to believe that this revision has been prepared and published as it were, officially, and under the auspices of responsible representatives of the way Gurdjieff's teaching goes into the world. However, there is no name, or names of such responsible ones on the published edition, with the exception of Madame de Salzmann who, being deceased, cannot, therefore, have initiated the actual publication of this revision.

Enclosed with this letter is a protest compiled by some of the students of Gurdjieff's teaching in Oregon who have been working with the authentic original, approved by Gurdjieff himself. They have found it a scripture specially prepared for this time, containing as claimed "All and Everything". It is exact and precise. Nothing should be changed, nothing omitted. I am quite certain that there are many others who are shocked and outraged at the appearance of this book. In many places alterations are made which even change the meaning of Gurdjieff's own writing.

If the faceless, nameless ones who published the revision really wish to give those new to Gurdjieff's teaching a fair opportunity of comparing the revised with the authentic edition, they should immediately authorize a reprint of the original authentic one - perhaps reducing the price somewhat to make up for the new students having to buy two books.

Naturally, many concerns and questions come to mind when we now see in the book stores, for the first time since its original publication in 1950, a revised version of Gurdjieff's written legacy of Work. We have read the dust jacket and enough of the text to realize that changes have been made to virtually every sentence in the Book, and the text has been shortened by more than a hundred pages. Frankly, this publication has left us baffled and confused and even a bit 'floundering', as Mullah Nassr Eddin says, 'like-a-puppy-who-has-fallen-into-a-deep-pond' (pg. 165), as we try to fathom its purpose. For these reasons, we wish to share our questions and thoughts regarding this with you. We invite your response."


Subject: A Protest - Part III

"To begin with the comment on the dust jacket that the authentic edition was approached with 'apprehension' by readers, you should know that our experience in approaching Beelzebub's Tales has not at all been one of apprehension or anxiety. It has been more like 'awe', or perhaps a feeling akin to 'fear' as in 'the fear of God', but certainly not apprehension, in its meaning of suspicion, or fear of future evil. On the contrary, our experience is a feeling of joy in knowing that Gurdjieff's teaching is alive in that Book. It is really accurate to state that 'apprehension' is what beginning readers have felt? Ofcourse, they may well feel a reluctance to venture into new territory on their own, without a competent guide who has the faith needed for the journey".

"We (and there are a large number of us) have pondered the aim of this revision, which you have formulated as: 'to clarify the verbal surface while respecting the author's thought and style.' What is meant by 'verbal surface'? What could the 'verbal surface' be but words chosen by the author and arranged in the manner he selected, i.e. in his 'style'? Is not Gurdjieff's style inseparable from what you call the 'verbal surface'?"

"You refer to a 'new experience of Gurdjieff's masterpiece for a generation of readers.' While we who have immersed ourselves in Gurdjieff's Beelzebub's Tales may now have the option of choosing whether or not to invest in this 'new experience,' people from now on who are new to the Gurdjieff Work will not have this choice. The authentic edition has not been published in hard bound copy for several years and even the paperback editions have become increasingly difficult to obtain. Your revised publication will in time become the only version of Beelzebub's Tales available and the 'new experience' will become the 'only experience' (until such time as it may again be revised to conform to the assumed inadequacies of future readers). What do you imagine this 'new experience' could be? The promise of a 'new experience' implies that the 'old experience' is somehow lacking. In what way can you possibly see it as deficient?"

"Your jacket text refers to the 'Russian original of Beelzebub's Tales,' and states that 'readers have recognized the need for a revised translation.' Isn't it true, however, that the 'Russian original' could only be the handwritten notes of Gurdjieff and of those who took down his original dictation, which have never been published and made available to readers? So, how is it that readers could question the translation without access to an original Russian 'text'? The original authentic text of Beelzebub's Tales, the one Gurdjieff labored so long to create, is the English text first published in 1950. The publisher of the revised version has informed us that the revised edition was prepared from a revision of the original English text only. If this is true, then why does the copyright page state that the revision was made by a group of 'translators'? What was being translated?"


Subject: A Protest - IV

"The revised edition states that the 'translators' were under the direction of Jeanne de Salzmann. Although Madame de Salzmann was a truly remarkable person, French was her mother tongue, and she was not as expert as Orage in the use of the English language. It is difficult for us to understand how one could expect the new team of revisers to be an improvement over the team of Gurdjieff, Orage, and the others chosen by Gurdjieff for this task. As stated in the Book itself, the authentic original text was prepared ...under the personal direction of the author, by a group of translators chosen by (Gurdjieff) and specially trained according to their defined individualities, in conformity with the text to be translated and in relation to the philological particularities of each language. (copyright page)

Orage, of course, had the primary responsibility for putting Beelzebub's Tales into the English prose that corresponded to Gurdjieff's design. Orage held a special, if not uniquely high position in Gurdjieff's regard, and is the only person known to be referred to as his 'close friend'. (Life Is Real Only Then, When I Am, pg. 154) As Orage labored to put Gurdjieff's manuscript into English, he was asked why he did not do something about its grammar and punctuation (perhaps 'clarify the verbal surface'?). Orage's answer has always been helpful and illuminating to us as we struggle with our own understanding of parts of the Book. He says:

Some of you still criticize the faulty grammar and punctuation and ask why I do not do something about it....Gurdjieff is constantly re-writing and revising. (pg. 1)...His (Gurdjieff's) task is to write the book, ours to make the effort to understand. The style and sense are Gurdjieff's. The surprising thing is that, in spite of the difficulties of translation the sense and style come through so well. It can be said that in English, this being a more flexible language than French, it is possible to play with words, so that the English translation will have a quality of its own. (pg. 2)...Gurdjieff will not use the language of the intelligentsia - ideas in the book will not be presented in our habitual thought patterns. Our intellectual life is based on chance associations which have become more or less fixed. Only when these are broken up can we begin to think freely. Our associations are mechanical; a whole mood can be destroyed by the use of one word which has a different group of associations. (pg. 3) (A.R.Orage's Commentaries on All and Everything, Edited by C.S.Nott, pp. 1-3).

It seems to us that many of the revisions do change the reader's mood, and in many cases the understanding as well. Even when we turn to Gurdjieff's first words in the Book, in 'Friendly Advice', we find that his 'experimental elucidations concerning the productivity of the perception by contemporary people of new impressions,' have become in the revised version, his 'research concerning the profit contemporary people can obtain from new impressions'. Perhaps the reader does struggle, a little, with the authentic text, but as he is struggling, the reader might also be asking himself 'what is an "experimental elucidation"?' or wondering at the thought of perceptions being 'productive'. The new renderings of 'research' and 'profit' already have very well established groups of associations and are easily passed along by the reader's habitual thought process, not requiring any questioning whatsoever. And so it seems to go throughout the text, from the chapter titles to the last sentence of the book, substituting the familiar for the challenging."


Subject: A Protest - V

"While we may not be certain just what the 'language of the intelligentsia' actually is, is it not likely to be found in the nature of the revisions you have made? Isn't Orage saying that the use of such language supports habitual thought patterns and gets in the way of the reader's ability to take in new ideas? Of course, Gurdjieff says this in Chapter I, in explaining his refusal to employ the 'bon ton literary language' used by 'patentedwriters'. (Pg. 6)

Here are just a very few examples of the alterations we have noticed in our encounter with the new text, which we believe change the reader's mood or alter the 'author's thought and style', instead of clarifying the 'verbal surface':

Authentic Version (A.V):
'any prayer may be heard by the Higher Powers and a corresponding answered obtained' (Friendly Advice)

Revised Version (R.V.):
"any prayer may be heard and granted by the Higher Powers' (Friendly Advice)

A.V.: 'the trouble with you is' (pg.6)
R.V.: 'what will be troublesome for you' (pg. 6)

A.V.: 'indispensably necessary that every day, at sunrise' (pg. 78 )
R.V.: 'indispensable when the sun rises' (pg. 74)

A.V.: 'my dear Captain' ---'grandfather' is wrong here (pg. 75)
R.V.: 'dear grandfather' (pg. 72)

A.V.: 'convince' (with regard to unconscious parts - pg. 78 )
R.V.: 'think and convince' (pg. 74)

A.V.: 'fulfill the good' (pg. 78 )
R.V.: 'enjoy the good' (pg. 74)

A.V.: 'sympathetic' (pg. 594)
R.V.: 'amiable' (pg. 545)

A.V.: 'constated' (pg. 596)
R.V.: 'noticed' (pg. 546)

A.V.: 'human mentation' (pg. 1193)
R.V.: 'human thought' (pg. 1093)

Throughout the text, nuances of meaning that have given Gurdjieff's writing a magical quality have been spoiled by the revisions.

We have come to understand for ourselves that a very real aspect of Beelzebub's Tales is not readily accessible to the formatory apparatus of the head-brain. Again and again, this can be seen whenever people obstinately go on trying to 'figure it out' upon encountering the unfamiliar word or locution. On the other hand, when we simply listen to it being read - relaxed, attentive, and open like a child - 'something' real is definitely received. We have experienced a broadening of our understanding, little by little, to encompass a knowing that is found in feeling as well as in thought. This experience is reflected by Louise Welch in 'Orage With Gurdjieff In America':

"Beelzebub's Tales produced a powerful effect, but that is not to say it was readily grasped. There were layers of meaning that people were touched by, but could not in any way formulate...Could one listen, as Orage advised, without giving way to constant verbal associations and unrelated imagery? ...Much of the narrative was addressed to different levels of perception in people (Gurdjieff had said seven). The task was to respond with the whole of one's mind, and not just with what Gurdjieff called the 'formatory apparatus', that part of the brain which was busy classifying ideas and objects, putting them into pigeon holes, and thereafter returning mechanically to them as statements of truth. This was all before the days of the computer, but his description of the conclusions of the formatory apparatus bears a close resemblance to computerized thought. (pg. 47)""


Subject: A Protest VI

"Isn't it probable that Gurdjieff worked so diligently on the text, rewriting time and time again, trying it out on all kinds of people, so as to find the exact words and mode of expression that would direct his message to the deepest, most essential part of his readers, rather than just to the head brain? Consider what Gurdjieff himself tells the reader in Chapter I:

'...I wish to bring to the knowledge of what is called your 'pure waking consciousness' the fact that in the writing following this chapter of warning I shall expound my thoughts intentionally in such sequence and with such 'logical confrontation', that the essence of certain real notions may of themselves automatically, so to say, go from this 'waking consciousness' - which most people in their ignorance mistake for real consciousness, but which I affirm and experimentally prove is the fictitious one - into what you call the subconscious, which ought to be in my opinion the real human consciousness, and thereby themselves mechanically bring about that transformation which should in general proceed in the entirety of a man and give him, from his own conscious mentation, the results he ought to have, which are proper to man and not merely to single- or double-brained animals.

'I decided to do this without fail so that this initial chapter of mine, predetermined as I have already said to awaken your consciousness, should fully justify its purpose, and reaching not only your, in my opinion, as yet only fictitious 'consciousness', but also your real consciousness, that is to say, what you call your subconscious, might, for the first time, compel you to reflect actively.' (Pages 24-25)

Now, if one really wished to understand what is being said here, and allowed Gurdjieff's words to penetrate to a deeper part of oneself, then perhaps one would see there is no need to change a single word and ANY change could prevent the very result Gurdjieff intended. This is especially so in light of Gurdjieff's statement that our "fictitious consciousness" is formed from mechanical impressions, including the "consonances of various words" which are indeed empty (pg. 25).

Certainly Gurdjieff and Orage and the others who stewarded the Book to publication could have prepared a text much in the manner of this revision, had Gurdjieff so wished. How can anyone not agree with J.G.Bennett in his "Talks on Beelzebub's Tales" that "This is not the work of an amateur first trying his hand at literary composition...It is written as, after long deliberation, he wished it to be written."? (pg. 10) Don't you think Gurdjieff had good reason to present his ideas in just the manner of expression he chose?

The revisions appear to have been made for the purpose of creating a text that is more grammatical, "up to date," and presumably easier and more comfortable to read. Was it your intention to facilitate the reader's understanding of Gurdjieff's teaching? However, isn't this contrary to Gurdjieff's way as expressed by Bennett, who says:

'GURDJIEFF'S METHODS ARE DIRECTLY OPPOSED to all our comfortable habits... he never made anything easy...On the contrary, he made the approach to his ideas difficult, both intellectually and emotionally'. (Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, pg. 9)

Or as Louise Welch states: 'Gurdjieff made a vital distinction between "knowledge" and "information". For knowledge to be rightly transmitted, and properly received, a special effort was required to read and inwardly digest. Gurdjieff held that knowledge, like all else on this planet, was material, was food and had to be properly ingested and absorbed. And, since the way in which knowledge entered the psyche was of primary importance, it was necessary for him to write so that the very structure of the material would refuse to allow the reader easy possession of its substance...The "digging" that the reader must undertake to reach any understanding was essential. In fact, as Orage discovered, when an idea appeared to be too easily grasped, Gurdjieff's instructions to him were to bury the bone deeper.' (Orage with Gurdjieff in America, Pages 44-45)

In Chapter I, Gurdjieff tells the reader that he chose not to write as others do because (for one reason) the reader is not accustomed to 'making any individual effort whatsoever'. (pages 6-7)"


Subject: A Protest VII

"Consider also the observations of Bennett regarding changes Gurdjieff made in the manuscript edition of Beelzebub's Tales. He says:
'Why should Gurdjieff have made a chapter that was already difficult even harder, if indeed the intention was that Beelzebub's Tales should be a means of bringing the ideas to the notice of the general public? Only someone familiar with his ideas, and prepared to devote a lot of time and hard study to the chapter could make anything of it. Gurdjieff has shown in his Meetings with Remarkable Men that he could tell stories in simple language, without confronting the reader with any linguistic problems. We also know that he spent no fewer than seven years in the writing of Beelzebub - as he himself says, sparing himself neither day nor night, constantly writing and rewriting. Therefore, we must assume that the writing of Beelzebub was in the form which he intended, and that the alterations were deliberate, in spite of making the ideas less accessible to the unprepared reader.' (Gurdjieff: Making a New World, pages 176-177)

'The Christian ideal', it is said, 'has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.' (G.K.Chesterton) Is it to be the same with Gurdjieff's teaching in Beelzebub's Tales?

Gurdjieff has been quoted as saying that after he dies, people who follow his ideas will tend to become organized in a kind of orthodox establishment, become conservative, publish 'authorized' editions of his words, and try to forget or at least ignore his outrageous side.

One of our favorite bits of Gurdjieff's masterful and unforgettable use of the unexpected is his youthful dancing around his grandmother's grave and singing:

'Let her with the saints repose,
Now that's she's turned up her toes,
Oi! Oi! Oi!
Let her with the saints repose,
Now that she's turned up her toes.' (pg. 29)

The revision of the verse to,

'Let her with the saints repose
She was a rare one, goodness knows!' (pg. 27)

certainly presents a more orthodox and less outrageous picture of the young Gurdjieff. It also produces a very different mood and emotional response in the reader, goodness knows! Aren't you worried, even a little, that Gurdjieff's grandmother, whose dying words to him were 'never do as others do', might learn of her eldest grandson's revised verse and fulfill his fears by turning in her grave like an 'Irish weathercock'? (pg. 41)

This is one of the more shocking changes made in Chapter I, but many other revisions in this chapter are just as bewildering. For example, why was it felt necessary to change ever so slightly the opening prayer from 'In the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Ghost. Amen.' to, 'In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen'? (pg. 3) Why was the chant of 'so and so and so you must, do not eat until you bust' (pg. 30) changed to 'enough is enough, you don't need to stuff'? (pg. 27), or the famous Georgian song, 'little did we tipple' (pg. 46) to 'Drink up again, boys'? (pg. 42) Even the author's exclamation near the end of the chapter, 'Stop! Misunderstanding Formation!' (pg. 50) has been altered; now, by the end of the first chapter of revised text, the revisers have Gurdjieff exclaiming 'Stop! Misconceived formulation!' (pg. 46) We cannot help but wonder whether this new injunction may be addressed to the revisers themselves as they attempt the reformulation of Gurdjieff's thoughts."

"Throughout the whole of Chapter I, 'The Arousing of Thought', Gurdjieff, in the authentic text, makes masterful use of his precise and unique style of expression to instill gradually and subtly 'sympathetic' feelings in the reader, feelings that serve to open the readers heart and mind to all that follows in that magnificent Book. According to Bennett, Gurdjieff:

'...gave more time and care to the composition of "The Arousing of Thought" than to anything else he wrote. His translators assert that it was completely rewritten at least seven times, and read in his presence
innumerable times to old and new pupils and friends, to chance acquaintances and even to complete strangers. Gurdjieff could be in no doubt about the hostility it would provoke; offending, as it does, every
canon of literary and personal taste...' (Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, pages 9-10)

Have you fully considered that for every word or phrase that is changed or 'improved upon', that there is also the risk of altering the subtle impact of this remarkable opening, and its consequent results in the reader for the whole of the Book. As Bennett adds, '"The Arousing of Thought" is not an isolated phenomenon, but a characteristic specimen of Gurdjieff's teaching.' Does not the potential risk to the reader therefore extend beyond this writing to the whole of Gurdjieff's Teaching and Work?

In 'The First Visit of Beelzebub to India', Gurdjieff describes how easily a teaching can be lost. Through Saint Buddha, he says that owing to the 'maleficent particularity' of our psyche called 'Wiseacring', we 'gradually' change the teaching of Sacred Individuals until the whole of it is 'finally completely destroyed'. (pg. 238) Saint Buddha's teaching itself did not escape this fate. Gurdjieff may have been giving us a warning about his own teaching when Beelzebub tells us, '...the first succeeding generation of the contemporaries of this genuine Messenger from Above...also began... to wiseacre with all His indications and counsels...' until nothing was left but 'Only-information-about-its-specific-smell.' (pages 239-240) He states further:

'LITTLE BY LITTLE they so changed these indications and counsels of His that if their Saintly Author Himself should chance to appear there and for some reason or other should wish to make Himself acquainted with them, He would not be able to even suspect that these indications and counsels were made by Him Himself... This already long established practice there consists in this, that a SMALL, SOMETIMES AN ALMOST TRIFLING, CAUSE is enough to bring about a change for the worse or even the complete destruction of...[objective good].' (pg. 240) (Emphasis added.)

Not only did Gurdjieff predict that his followers would sanitize his writings, but he also, in 'Life Is Real Only Then, When I Am' (Third Series), refers to '...the fact that today, enemies with an unusual inner attitude toward me are multiplying in great numbers...' He explains this 'unusual inner attitude' as follows: 'There is not, so to speak, a single one of my sworn enemies who, in one or another of his ordinary states, would not be ready to "sell his soul for me".' (pg. 174) While this appears to be 'absurd,' he explains, it is nevertheless an 'irrefutable fact' that can be 'demonstrated at will'. He says, 'The more someone has direct relations with me, the more strength he shows later in the diametrically opposed actions that he manifests towards me.' (pg. 175) Is it not possible, therefore, that even action taken by those who have felt closest and most intimately connected to Gurdjieff could manifest in a way that is 'diametrically opposed' to Gurdjieff's aim?"


Subject: A Protest IX

"Gurdjieff is not saying that these 'enemies' act consciously against him, but according to lawful scientific principles. How well one knows that actions can produce the opposite of the results intended, even when carried out with the best of intentions. In this case, action taken with the apparent intent to propagate the Teaching, perhaps is instead actually the beginning of its deterioration. As Beelzebub's highly esteemed teacher, Mullah Nassr Eddin, says: 'Isn't it all one to the poor flies how they are killed? By the kick of the hooves of horned devils, or by a stroke of the beautiful wings of divine angels?' (pg. 1086)

Gurdjieff literally put all and everything into this Book. As Gurdjieff himself said, he did not have the slightest wish to write, but circumstances quite independent of him constrained him to do so. He had already been 'not only through the mill but through all the grindstones' as well. (pg. 18 ) He began writing when he realized there no longer was time to disseminate his teaching by way of direct contact alone. He was in his last stages of life, had never before written for publication and was to receive neither fame nor riches for his efforts. Yet he began writing only a few months after his near fatal automobile crash, which he survived against all medical expectations. For a period of twenty-five years, Beelzebub's Tales took on its form and content, until the printer's proofs set for publication were at last delivered to Gurdjieff. Having received confirmation that his life's work was to endure in at least this written form, Gurdjieff died eight days later.

His Book has been referred to as his 'Magnum Opus', the divine glorification of his life's work, a 'flying cathedral' of a book, and an 'objective work of art'. It is a 'book' only in the sense the Bible is a book - a scripture. Gurdjieff perhaps saw the entire Book as one magnificent prayer, for he advises that it be read thrice, because, 'any prayer may be heard by Higher Powers and a corresponding answer obtained only if it is uttered thrice', first for one's parents, then for one's neighbor, and lastly for oneself. Gurdjieff's writing of this Book is a demonstration of the truth that real Work, like prayer, is to be invoked for the benefit of others. Beelzebub's Tales is written to and for the Grandson, for the benefit of the reader and those to come after. In this Book, Gurdjieff has sown the seeds of an authentic teaching of immeasurable welfare for mankind. Whether or not Gurdjieff's labors will grow to harvest now depends on us, the readers, and whether we make use of the teaching as he presented it. Gurdjieff expressed a very strong hope and wish for the reader of Beelzebub's Tales, in his words, a hope 'that according to your understanding you will obtain the specific benefit for yourself which I anticipate, and which I wish for you with all my being.' Such a powerful wish from Gurdjieff, a wish made with all his being, can be received only with complete humility and the recognition that the fulfillment of Gurdjieff's wish must come through the understanding and efforts of the reader. In writing Beelzebub's Tales as he did, Gurdjieff left us a living legacy of hope, the Hope of Consciousness, which is strength. Our wish is that it continue to be a real source of strength to learners and strivers everywhere."


Faith of consciousness is freedom
Faith of feeling is weakness
Faith of body is stupidity.

Love, Peace,

And Freedom,



Last edited by Solomon on Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Compare this Sample Reply with quote

Compare this exert from the corrupted edition, taken from the beginning of the book...

"Everywhere on the Earth, before beginning anything new, it is customary first of all, to pronounce aloud, or, at least mentally, the following words understandable by every contemporary even quite illiterate person - namely: "In the name of the Father and of His Son and in the name of that Holy Ghost who, if not understood by all ordinary mortals, is, at any rate, understood and beyond all doubt known by our priests and theologians."

Now the genuine text, taken from Arkana's 1985 edition let's see now...

"AMONG other convictions formed in my common presence during my responsible, peculiarly composed life, there is one such - also an indubitable conviction - that always and everywhere on the earth, among people of every degree of development of understanding and of every form of manifestation of the factors which engender in their individuality all kinds of ideals, there is acquired the tendency, when beginning anything new, unfailingly to pronounce aloud or, if not aloud, at least mentally, that definate utterance understandable to every even quite illiterate person, which in different epochs has been formulated variously and in our day is formulated in the following words: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Ghost. Amen."

Mmm... precisely so Uncle G, even any obyvatel understands it, and nay word of those accursed priests about it.

Hope Grandma didn't get into too much of a tail-spin, I know you're onto them. Laughing

Love and Peace,

Solo Man.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ARE the Gabriel papers?
I find it quite shocking that Gurdjieffs work can be 'revised'. How can anyone revise some-one elses work? And the example you gave Solomon was enough to convince me that the 'revising' is not only insensitive but also possibly misleading? And I haven't even READ Beelzebubs tales...about time don't you think?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject: Ah yes indeed.. Reply with quote

You and I are lucky to have uncorrupted editions Bd.

Mister Gurdjieff said he had no doubt this would happen.

After all, they did it to all the other sacred writings didn't they.

You have a PM.

Love and Peace,


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Speaking of Fontainbleu Reply with quote

Speaking of Fontainbleu...

And the reasons Mister Gurdjieff closed down (for ever) his Institute For The Harmonious Development Of Man? ...

Conveying his thoughts soon after the near fatal car crash and, as he put it, being still "utterly powerless in body", he went on to say...

"I then reflected that the attempt to preserve the existence of this institution, would in the absence of real people around me and owing to the impossibility of procuring without me the great material means required for it, inevitably lead to a catastrophe the result of which, among other things for me in my old age as well as for numerous others wholly dependant on me, would be, so to say, a "vegetation."

The lecture which I propose to append as a conclusion to this first series was more than once read by my, as they were then called "pupils of the first rank" during the existence of the mentioned institution. Certain of them, by the way, turned out subsequently, to my personal sincere regret, to have in their essence a predisposition to the speedy transformation of their psyche into the psyche called Hasnamussian - a predisposition which appeared and became fully visible and clearly sensible to all more or less normal persons around them, when at the moment of desperate crisis for everything I had previously actualised, due to the said accident, they, as is said, "quaking for their skins," that is to say fearing to lose their personal welfare which, by the way, I had created for them, deserted the common work and with their tails between their legs took themselves off to their kennels, where profiting by the crumbs fallen from my so to say "idea table" they opened their, as I would say, "Shachermacher-workshop-booths," and with a secret feeling of hope and perhaps even joy at their speedy and complete release from my vigilant control, began manufacturing out of various unfortunate naive people, "candidates for lunatic asylums."


Get the picture?


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

As one of the early American fathers observed..

"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

This has been a bullet-in from the flow of tyme.

Love and Peace,

Black Lion.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: The Gabriel Papers... Reply with quote

Bon Afternoon dear Blackdog..

"What ARE the Gabriel papers?"

Good question Bd, a very good question actually. Wink

The simple answer is to say that they were yet another hasnamussian attempt, not to 'steal' the Gurdjieff Legacy, he invited us to do that really, but to corrupt that Legacy at the expense of all other beings and life on this Earth itself, in the name of it's Hasnamussian attempt to "Lord-it-over-all-creation-itself"

Or in the words of the author of that inappropriately named tome himself, in a private comminuqué to me, he was "very proud of himself to have gone along with Mr. Gurdjieff a lot of the way, and then to have stolen the whole show for himself"

Or that he is...

The devil of the Bible and "determined to have his place in plan".

Or the one true reincarnation of Aleister Crowley!

Hah. This 'Fool' was 'born' before Uncle Aleister even left this coil, and he couldn't tell me the name of Aleister's first born child either.

Which kinda did it for me, since I am personally acquanted with the one true reincarnation of Aleister Crowley, but one must give these people enough of their own rope.

"I find it quite shocking that Gurdjieffs work can be 'revised'. How can anyone revise some-one elses work?"

It would seem not to be as difficult as you have imagined m'dear n'est ce pas?

And now we must not only understand, that the Sheiks Islamists got at the Holy Qur'an, a little-bit-here-and-there but the "Knights of The Golden Calf" have 'gotten' likewise at the The Holy Bible.

AND; these ever the same hasnamussian-forces running automatically on the bad-food-stuff of all three kinds, would also have managed to destroy the Gurdjieff Legacy for the purposes of turning Our Garden into a Prison-Planet, had it not been for the eternal vigilance of us Kesdjanian children of George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff, who scratched his itch and made himself all better, and then Blessed Be He, did his very utmost best to share with everyone, the divine unction for what ails thee all. Very Happy

Love and Peace,

Uncle David.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mirror, mirror on the Wall Wink

the divine unction for what ails thee all.


Matthew 7:3-5 (KJV)

3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Sacrament of Extremeunction or Anointing of the Sick Laughing

Just as Anointing by conferring the Holy Spirit completes the sacrament of baptism, so extreme unction is the complement and completion of penance.
Penance restores the justification lost by sin, extreme unction takes away the infirmity left by sin; it 'removes that state which might be an obstacle to the clothing with glory of the resurrection'; and, as every sacrament makes us men in some respect like Christ, 'so we become by extreme unction like the risen Christ because it will be given to the dying as a sign of the glory to come in which everything mortal will be stripped from the elect' (Albertus Magnus).

According to the teaching of great theologians, the holy anointing makes the man who stands at the threshold of eternity and loyally cooperates with the grace of the sacrament ready to enter directly upon the Beatific Vision.

That this sacrament was provided for the sick to strengthen them and prepare them for a happy passage to the hereafter was for centuries an undisputed part of tradition. The ancient prayers accompanying the anointing of the sick are evidence of this. The Church only had to concern herself officially with the doctrinal side of it when particular questions cropped up or errors appeared. For this reason the earliest documents deal more with the question of the minister and the external rites. It was not until the Reformation denied the sacramentality of extreme unction and its institution by Christ that a more exact exposition was demanded of the Council of Trent.

Extreme Unction is a true sacrament instituted by Christ and proclaimed by St. James. It is administered by anointing with blessed oil accompanied by prayer. Only a priest can validly administer it. It can be received by any baptized person who has reached the age of reason and is on account of sickness or age in danger of death. Its effect is the strengthening of the soul, often of the body as well, and in the necessary conditions remission of sins.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: My Dear Guest.. Reply with quote

My dear Guest..

Please note that this is not about some "church" or other.


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